The Biggest Archetype?

[Sword Saint]

It's no secret that FE10 is, at its heart, a jRPG, and when you pair that with the Fire Emblem franchise, it's almost certain that you'll get more than a few guys and girls who could've sworn that you've seen with a different dye-job before.

That said, who do you guys think is the biggest archetype/cookie-cutter?

I'm gonna have to go with the Black Knight, personally.  I mean, right down to the name, this is a guy we've seen before: the sinister, stoic villain with a mysterious past, a lietmotif, and a peculiar code of honor.  He's also got that whole "sympathetic villain" thing going that you get with these types of characters.

[camus the dark knight]

Hmm Izuka is a rather famous one.

Evil villain that is the confidant and close adviser of a king/prince/emperor/whatever.

The dark knight is indeed a big one though.

(I thought this was going to be about Jeigan, Navare, Oguma, etc. so I was kind of surprised seeing you as the topic creator).

[Sword Saint]

Hmm Izuka is a rather famous one.

Evil villain that is the confidant and close adviser of a king/prince/emperor/whatever.

The dark knight is indeed a big one though.

(I thought this was going to be about Jeigan, Navare, Oguma, etc. so I was kind of surprised seeing you as the topic creator).

Nah, we've got enough "FE stereotype" discussions for this milennia: I figured getting at a different angle would be an interesting change.

[Saeclum]

And Micaiah as the dedicated, caring holy girl that want to keep everyone alive, and don't like war.

[NeonZ]

And Micaiah as the dedicated, caring holy girl that want to keep everyone alive, and don't like war.

I thought part 3 did a good job on making Micaiah avoid that cliche. When she went to war again, she didn't just mope around (though there were some moments).

[Shadow Slayer]

Ike is probobly one of the biggest around as well, there is always that hero that doesn't judge people for their differences.

[Lord Fuckboy]

As well as the typical ragtag mercenary that becomes nobility, then gives it up.

[Neofox]

And Micaiah as the dedicated, caring holy girl that want to keep everyone alive, and don't like war.

Pouring oil down a canyon and then attempting to shoot down the pegasus that Sanaki was riding on so that she couldn't escape shows that Micaiah can be quite evil if she wants to be.

[Celice]

I wouldn't consider Sephiran's motives sinister or that of a villain, if any thing.  Sure it may not have been what every one else had wanted, but that's kinda along the lines of saying a man wants to kill himself due to boredom is of the villainous nature--only instead of referring as a personal, he takes himself as a burden upon all of mankind.

[Neofox]

I wouldn't consider Sephiran's motives sinister or that of a villain, if any thing.  Sure it may not have been what every one else had wanted, but that's kinda along the lines of saying a man wants to kill himself due to boredom is of the villainous nature--only instead of referring as a personal, he takes himself as a burden upon all of mankind.

Plus there's the fact you can get him to change his mind and join you to help clean up the mess he made.

[Areth]

Maybe this is getting into Jeigan/Navarre territory, but I thought that the relationship between Micaiah and Pelleas was uncannily similar to that between Roy and Guinevere, or between Ike and Elincia.

[Celice]

Zephiel's was largely caused from mistreatment as a child, though.  Were it not for such a past, the chances are in the favor of him not causing such a ruckus.

Sephiran, as far as I know, has no motive other than that which he himself has decided.  His mind hadn't been conditioned to the extreme that Zephiel's was.

[Neofox]

Maybe this is getting into Jeigan/Navarre territory, but I thought that the relationship between Micaiah and Pelleas was uncannily similar to that between Roy and Guinevere, or between Ike and Elincia.

I wouldn't say it's like Roy and Guinevere, but the game directly points out that it's a lot like Ike and Elincia.

As for Sephiran? He's more like every Tales villain ever made... Except he can be convinced to change his mind and join you.

[Haken]

Zephiel's was largely caused from mistreatment as a child, though.  Were it not for such a past, the chances are in the favor of him not causing such a ruckus.

Sephiran, as far as I know, has no motive other than that which he himself has decided.  His mind hadn't been conditioned to the extreme that Zephiel's was.

I'd have to disagree with that. The memory scene you see after his defeat clearly shows him in pain with chaotic energy seemingly leading him to insanity. The "awaken O Goddess" at the very end sounded REALLY like someone who had lost their mental faculties.


As for the archetype choice, I would choose Lekain. He resembles past FE villains like Garnef, Manfloy, Lyon (To a certain extent) and Petrine. They all fit the bill: Evil villain out for personal gain by basking in the power of a creature stronger than all, usually coupled with ill intentions. They are devoted to this "ethereal being" whom they follow behind, though they have no REAL idea on what the final conditions will be (with the partial exception of Garnef and Manfloy. All I'm saying is that they're dreadfully similiar).

[Celice]

I'd have to disagree with that. The memory scene you see after his defeat clearly shows him in pain with chaotic energy seemingly leading him to insanity. The "awaken O Goddess" at the very end sounded REALLY like someone who had lost their mental faculties.

Well, as long as you know I hadn't the intention of saying a thing about insanity--only the distinction between Zephiel's faith in humanity and his own.

There is, though, a large difference between beginning under a false veil and creating bad choices, and making a choice, then becoming lost under the veil.  Insanity is nothing more than a soulless man doing a soulless thing.

[Deadguy118]

Well... let's see.
Micaiah is the perfect example of a Mary Sue, but that really isn't an archetype as it is annoying.

Jarod is the perfext example of the "Incredebly Evil and nothing else" archetype
In fact, most of the villans ether fall under that or "religious fevor."

[Neofox]

Micaiah is the perfect example of a Mary Sue, but that really isn't an archetype as it is annoying.

Micaiah exhibits character flaws as well as different sides of her personality. She can't be a Mary-Sue.

[Deadguy118]

Are you sure? A mary sue doesn't have to be perfect. Let's run her through the universal mary sue litmus test...
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm
I got a 60.

[NeonZ]

Are you sure? A mary sue doesn't have to be perfect. Let's run her through the universal mary sue litmus test...
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm
I got a 60.

The flaws of a Mary Sue are generally to make the reader feel sorry for her, or to show a negative aspect of one who beats her.

Micaiah gets defeated three times in Part 3, and those defeats don't give any meaningful character development or change to her or Ike - that's the opposite of what happens to a Mary Sue.

She's also barely acknowledged by Ike (or his group, in general) after everyone joins, even though she gets a few scenes recognizing his qualities.

She even gets left completely out of the farewell Yune scene, even though she accompanied Yune for a much longer time than Ike...

She does have a special bloodline, but that happened to every FE protagonist up until FE5, only from FE6 and on the protagonist became completely normal people and the legendary weapons weren't tied to their blood. Micaiah has special powers, unlike the old main characters, but she lacks any significant legendary weapons exclusive to her.

[Neofox]

Are you sure? A mary sue doesn't have to be perfect. Let's run her through the universal mary sue litmus test...
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm
I got a 60.

That test is designed for personal and fan characters. Notice how a good amount of the questions ask how the character relates to the reader personally in one way or another.