My new-found and intense hatred of the colour green... (Mild spoiler?)

[Tylandras]

I'm on my second play through of Radiant Dawn on hard mode (EU) and am probably going to start losing it soon as a result of allied units. Who decided that not being able to order them to STAY IN THE CORNER was a good idea? There are the usual problems such as allies failing to use vulneraries at sensible moments, blocking positions that you want to use to form a defensive line and then sauntering off at the next oppertunity, and just generally getting in the way. But then there is Elincia in chapter 3-10...

For the love of all that is good and holy, why is the woman who put her sword down charging the enemy lines?

I play with relatively few units in most Fire Emblem games because I find it satisfying at the end game when they own everything. As a result I have about 6 units going along the south having no difficulty and Titania with Haar going up the middle destroying all comers. Yet in my latest attempt (about half an hour ago) on turn four Elincia managed to get ahead of her entourage and got thoroughly destroyed by the enemy paladins. I was not amused...

Anyway, the point of this post is to ask if there is any way to make the allied units less of a liability short of giving Elincia a shadow with provoke? Or was I just really unlucky? One more turn and the rest of my units would've been there...

[Neofox]

I never really had this problem, so luck could be a factor, but then again, my Elincia is usually fairly durable due to using her a decent amount during her chapters... In maniac I believe she was able to take one arrow to the face and live (but only one... anything else could breathe on her and she'd die, although the bow knights are usually the only ones that can target her...).

[Haken]

I feel your pain, this happened way too many times to me, even though I had her at lv.6 Queen at teh end of Pt.2. What I found always works however, don't ask me why, is to make sure that Marcia has the Brave Lance equipped and more than 22 speed. If that happens, she always seems to ignore oncoming enemies and always charges to the front.

I would also reccomend letting Ike and Ranulf take care of the bottommost enemies and having the rest charge. And for the love of God, bring Reyson.

[UchihaHunter]

Haha yea, the green guys make that chapter a bit interesting, but you have plenty of good units (read: Oscar, Titania, and Haar) with good enough move to get up there and kill any enemies that had a chance to kill her...

My main problem is that it speeds up the chapter to the point that it's a little difficult to steal that physic staff from the bishop at the top right...

[Art]

Hm. I never had this problem, but then again, I was playing on Normal difficulty, so that's not really saying anything.

But still, on normal the units that come with Elincia tend to surround her, so literally nobody got to her, and I was able to get my units to break through enemy lines when everybody charged onto the center of the battlefield. (I later had Haar and Shinon clean out the southern place; none of the armor knights moved an inch from where they were when the fight started.) I got a little paranoid in some spaces, but thankfully I was able to do it just fine.

And yeah, Reyson in this chapter is an absolute must if you hope to get to Elincia in time, since he's the only way some units can get there fast enough.

[theshim is the shimiest shim of all the shims that ever shim]

Just finished this chapter earlier today.  Elincia did head towards the enemies, but so did the entire Crimean army, and aside from that one random Halberdier who 8 or 9 people missed IN A ROW, it was alright.  Couldn't get Ike to her in time because I sent him the wrong way, but oh well.

Of course, I am playing on Normal...

[Tylandras]

I managed it easily enough on the second run through. It must have been a fluke that she managed to get into a position where her group weren't surrounding her. She almost gave me a heart attack the second time as a result of her moving into range of one of the enemy bow knights, but thankfully she wasn't fired at.

I always use the herons when I play, I just happened to have been a bit too liberal with my laguz gems prior to this chapter...

The general consensus when dealing with allies appears to be, "run faster than they do".

Thankyou for the suggestions.

In response to theshim, sometimes I think the game should have been called Fire Emblem: Statistical Abberations.

[theshim is the shimiest shim of all the shims that ever shim]

Hmmm...FE:SA?  We could work with that...

Just another quick question which is not entirely off-topic:  The herons.  Do they always stay with Reyson's Vigor affecting one, Leanne's on either side of her, and Rafiel's all four sides?  ('Cause that makes Reyson kinda, you know, suck.)

[hyde]

Yes, but when Leanne's transformed she can still only affect two, Rafiel can still affect four but he doesn't fly and therefore has less move and does not have Canto, where Reyson can affect four when transformed and has Canto and can fly.

So basically, Reyson loses when untransformed, I guess, but since you get tons of Laguz Stones, Laguz Gems and Olivi Grass you can just keep him transformed most of the time. And there's also the fact that he comes at a higher level.

[Neofox]

With the herons it depends on what you prefer.

It's indeed easy to keep Reyson in heron form, but some people seem to have problems with using laguz for reasons I don't understand, so you might have some problems keeping him in heron form at first. Leanne can only chant for 2, but she can do it consistantly and is therefore the more reliable one. Rafiel sacrifices movement for the ability to sing for all 4 in either form. Whichever is best is up to personal preferance... Personally, I prefer Rafiel.

[hyde]

The problem I have with Rafiel is not even the lack of move, but more the fact that he can't "galdr and run". It makes him a bit more vulnerable in general, even though it won't make a lot of difference.

[Neofox]

The problem I have with Rafiel is not even the lack of move, but more the fact that he can't "galdr and run". It makes him a bit more vulnerable in general, even though it won't make a lot of difference.

The fact he refreshes 4 people tends to result in all potential threats to him being taken out before the enemy phase, so I don't personally find that a problem...

[Tylandras]

I tend to have my frontliners in range of enemy attacks (they dodge most things  ) so that they kill a lot on the enemy turn. As a result of this I find Reyson the most useful. Give him celerity and he can move in and out a considerable distance. Olivi grass isn't particularly useful for the herons as I always expect them to be using vigor (come to think of it, I've never used any other galdr...). Rafiel is left too exposed and Leanne doesn't do enough.

[Art]

I didn't like Rafiel because he couldn't move too far. Therefore, it made the galdr-on-four-people effect kind of pointless.

Leanne was a little better since she could move farther, but she still had her flaws. I mean, seriously? What's making the person behind you moving again going to do if you want it to be there? The main reason I carried her with me to the final chapter was that I wanted her and Naesala to run off happily ever after, and since I didn't have that A support by the time Part 4 Chapter 3 came around... (Yes, I know what you're thinking. Tough.)

I liked Reyson, mostly because he could move very far. I didn't get to see much of his galdr-on-four-people action, but he was cool.

So I'd have to say that Reyson's good, but that Leanne isn't bad either.

[Neofox]

I didn't like Rafiel because he couldn't move too far. Therefore, it made the galdr-on-four-people effect kind of pointless.

Boots?

[hyde]

Boots?

Why use Boots on Rafiel when Reyson doesn't need them and you can use them on other units?

[Lord Fuckboy]

Or Reyson can use them to go greater distances.

The way I see it the only argument between Reyson and Rafiel should occur in the Final Chapter, where they're actually competing for a spot that one of the three siblings can fill; Leanne is already out because she can only revitalize two at a time (as opposed to four), but then you get to Reyson vs Rafiel.

In which case, there are Laguz Gems for Reyson to use at this point.  Reyson makes better use of Boots and Celebrity and can "Chant and run"...  I'd prefer one of the two to go on another character, however.  But Reyson only needs one.  Giving Rafiel boots only puts him up to Reyson's movement.  Giving Reyson boots puts him still beyond Rafiel.

Rafiel is good, but when competing with Reyson, Reyson has an advantage over him in movement, canto, and chanting; I'd prefer using Reyson for that reason.

(Mind you, Leanne's still great; two at once really isn't bad, the other two just have advantages over her in how many they can revitalize).

[Neofox]

Why use Boots on Rafiel when Reyson doesn't need them and you can use them on other units?

Who else really needs them?

Regardless, this probably isn't the place to argue which heron is the best.... Still, everyone has their own opinion because they all work differently.

EXAMPLE: DMA prefers Leanne because although she can only sing for two people, she can do it consistantly regardless of form. She doesn't need anything special compared to her brothers because she can move a decent distance and doesn't have to remain in heron form to be most efficient at singing.

I prefer Rafiel because he can always sing for 4 people and if I don't use him, I end up never using the boots because nobody else really needs them. Yeah, I could use them on Reyson to give him a paladin's movement... So? He and Leanne can keep up with the team just fine on their own and the team itself doesn't have a problem with people getting left behind. Rafiel is the only one where the boost actually helps in a significant way.

Reyson can only sing for 4 while in heron form, and although you get two laguz gems, one comes in the final mission near the end of the game. You get one right before the final mission, but he won't be the only one wanting it if you're using any non-royal laguz, so you have to ration its use.

[Lord Fuckboy]

You misunderstood my point.  It's not worth comparing them until you get to that point because that's when they're actually competing for a spot.

Also, Leanne is fragile as glass.  You have to be expected to take one hit before dying even if you'r enot meant to take hits; unfortunately, Leanne can't do that.  If she takes a hit, she's done for.  Reyson and Rafiel have the HP to say so otherwise, and have better avoid due to more Luck.

[Neofox]

I see your ninja-edit LR...

Also, Leanne is fragile as glass.  You have to be expected to take one hit before dying even if you'r enot meant to take hits; unfortunately, Leanne can't do that.  If she takes a hit, she's done for.  Reyson and Rafiel have the HP to say so otherwise, and have better avoid due to more Luck.

Wrong.

Leanne averages:
46 HP, 0 Str, 15 mag, 4.5 skill, 13 speed, 50 luck, 5.5 defense, and 25 resistance

Rafiel averages:
47.8 Hp, 1 Str, 15 mag, 3.8 skill, 11.6 speed, 47.8 luck, 5.8 defense, and 25 resistance

Reyson averages:
56.25 HP, 4.25 Str, 12.5 mag, 10 skill, 16 speed, 46 luck, 11 defense, and 22.2 resistance

Contrary to what you claim, Leanne has the best average luck, and averages more or less the same HP with Rafiel while also being faster. Their defense is also pretty much the same. Leanne also caps her luck and magic a while before everything else, so you can use BEXP to help her gain other stats, too.

Reyson is clearly more durable than his siblings, but my point is that you're incorrect on Leanne being so frail. My guess is that you just got RNG-screwed during a playthrough where you used her.