Politeness, opinions of others, and why you shouldn't take TEH INTERWEBZ 2serius

[Jeffer]

Right, but (spellchecker + native language) = no goddam excuse.   

Well, a serious language disability would be one too. But since I don't think such a person would be inclined to join an internet forum, it's a moot discussion.

[Tribute]

Adding to what Vivi has said, I think that there are ways to regulate the problems at FESS to make the boards seem more welcome. There can be more moderator action, as mentioned before, to delete or remove content from posts. Alternatively, an 'ignore' feature could be implemented. This would allow users to neither see nor hear potentially offensive remarks from those with whom they don't agree (on a personal level). Also, since Grand Example of Stupidity is really an undesireable rank and is probably a significant cause of newbies leaving, it would be best to somehow make newbies more informed about what behaviors lead to GEOS. Now, I'm not sure if it's done already, but is the Manual of FESS Prowess given or linked to them in anyway upon their signup? If it isn't, then somehow it needs to be made very clear in any way possible. I suggest through an email sent to them at signup.

On an ontopic, but unrelated note..., perhaps all members should take the time to reread this section...?

1.3: Inappropriate Posting Behavior (Flaming, Trolling, Spamming, et cetera)
There are some very specific types of behavior that are not tolerated at the FESS or most other forums.  These are “spamming,” the posting of irrelevant, stupid, or repetitive messages/threads; “trolling,” the posting of content intended to cause angry responses; and “flaming,” the posting of overtly antagonistic, vicious, or cruel content.  None of these things will be tolerated at the FESS, and the latter two are treated with particular seriousness.  A further serious crime is antagonism/flaming/trolling of the GEOS and RSFV groups.  This not only makes you look like an asshole, but will result in you being GEOSed yourself.  Also note that we do not allow pornography at the FESS, and that any image posted must be roughly “PG-13” in its content, and must not be a flame or trolling attempt.

Flaming is looked down upon; even the rules say so. If we do follow these rules, then perhaps FESS will recover what it has lost.

(P.S. From the last few posts, I've noticed that everyone's doing a pretty good job so far with this.  )

[Nightmare]

Adding to what Vivi has said, I think that there are ways to regulate the problems at FESS to make the boards seem more welcome. There can be more moderator action, as mentioned before, to delete or remove content from posts. Alternatively, an 'ignore' feature could be implemented. This would allow users to neither see nor hear potentially offensive remarks from those with whom they don't agree (on a personal level). Also, since Grand Example of Stupidity is really an undesireable rank and is probably a significant cause of newbies leaving, it would be best to somehow make newbies more informed about what behaviors lead to GEOS. Now, I'm not sure if it's done already, but is the Manual of FESS Prowess given or linked to them in anyway upon their signup? If it isn't, then somehow it needs to be made very clear in any way possible. I suggest through an email sent to them at signup.

What I marked bold sort of troubles me here. I mean, the link is there, and usually people greet with "read the rules" or something. What bothers me is that you didn't know. Did you made an intro topic?

This leads me to think, what if a new member passes over the intro topic and overlooks the little link below the blue box? :X It is mandatory reading, but if you are new...?

[i am a raging faggot who loves big dicks]

This leads me to think, what if a new member passes over the intro topic and overlooks the little link below the blue box? :X It is mandatory reading, but if you are new...?

Self-selection.

[♂♀]

I wonder of that little box of FESS Prowess that UA/Tent used to have is still lying around somewhere waiting to be used.

[Crystal Shards]

I know on Mercury Ice you can make it so you have to agree to the rules before posting. I'm sure there's something like that in place here.

~Crystal

[Tribute]

What I marked bold sort of troubles me here. I mean, the link is there, and usually people greet with "read the rules" or something. What bothers me is that you didn't know. Did you made an intro topic?

This leads me to think, what if a new member passes over the intro topic and overlooks the little link below the blue box? :X It is mandatory reading, but if you are new...?

Well, I don't think I made one for this board (and maybe even never) since I was at a previous FESS (it moves a lot...), but I did read the rules when I first joined. My mistake.

[dilbertschalter]

Watch where you're throwing from, kid. That glass house is looking pretty vulnerable. Are you just trying to stir shit?

I think the forums have gotten worse. I am being honest about my thoughts, nothing more. also, lol at the endless onslaught of ad hominem. It is amusing to say the least.

[theshim is the shimiest shim of all the shims that ever shim]

I know on Mercury Ice you can make it so you have to agree to the rules before posting. I'm sure there's something like that in place here.

~Crystal

Uh-huh...just out of curiosity, when was the last time you installed a game on your computer?  Did you read the EULA?  Probably not.  If you did, rest assured you are one of very, very few that do.  The odds are that the people who are problems check the little box that says "I have read and agree to abide by the Manual of FESS Prowess" without ever looking at it.

I do think the link is a bit on the small side and if you're not paying attention you can miss it.  This of course means that those morons need to pay attention, but perhaps the banner ought to be a little bigger - I seem to remember it being a bit more prominent in FESS4 (though I could be completely on crack).

EDIT: Dilbert.  Stop.  Almost every one of your recent posts have included a little jab at the end; it is for that reason that Superbus has started getting ticked at you.  Posting constructively is fine, but leave the little last words out, and we'd be that much more productive.

[dilbertschalter]

EDIT: Dilbert.  Stop.  Almost every one of your recent posts have included a little jab at the end; it is for that reason that Superbus has started getting ticked at you.  Posting constructively is fine, but leave the little last words out, and we'd be that much more productive.

It irritates when people make personal attacks without responding to the substance of posts. I'd prefer having a constructive debate to "No, you are bad, therefore your post does not merit an actual response".

[Crystal Shards]

When's the last time you said something constructive, sir? I have yet to find one decent suggestion come from your posts. All I'm finding is a (misplaced) superiority complex and hypocrisy, neither of which are helping this situation.

[dilbertschalter]

When's the last time you said something constructive, sir? I have yet to find one decent suggestion come from your posts. All I'm finding is a (misplaced) superiority complex and hypocrisy, neither of which are helping this situation.

Well, perhaps you don't agree with the idea of a zero tolerance policy on various forms of trolling, but I don't see what's inherently unconstructive about that. I have also freely admitted that I can be a dope at times, so your continued personal attacks about some sort of mysterious superiority complex rather amuse me.

Anyway, I am done talking about how awesome I am. If you want to PM me or reply in the thread have fun, but this is turning into a boring offtopic egofest and there are many better ways to spend time then that.

[Superbus]

It irritates when people make personal attacks without responding to the substance of posts. I'd prefer having a constructive debate to "No, you are bad, therefore your post does not merit an actual response".

No, fuck you.

You pretty much did nothing but point fingers at anyone and anything around here, but refuse to take responsibility - 98% of the time - for your own words.

You criticized Blacky Wacky. Who are you to criticize Blacky Wacky? His personality is overridden by the things he's done - at first request - for our community. What have you done? Other than perform routinely poorly in debates, and attack other members? How dare you attack us of ad hominum attacks when that's basically the majority of your posting? You accused Blacky Wacky of being gone when things got rough; when the fuck do you post anywhere save your inconsistent, shit-stirring posts in SD?

I love it when people say I should ban Blacky Wacky. If I had to choose, your useless ass would be packing.

---

On topic, AceNoctali sent me something that a few of his fellow French members had to say about our situation. I'm reading it now, and once I translate it, I should post it

[Sword Saint]

You criticized Blacky Wacky. Who are you to criticize Blacky Wacky? His personality is overridden by the things he's done - at first request - for our community.

Contributions don't put you above criticism and don't excuse doing dickish things.  If that were the case, Jet'd probably still be here, considering how he was easily one of the most active staffers in FESS's history, ever.

[YokaiKnight]

Anyway, I am done talking about how awesome I am. If you want to PM me or reply in the thread have fun, but this is turning into a boring offtopic egofest and there are many better ways to spend time then that.

This is quite agreeable except for the "reply in the thread" part. If you guys (theshim, Crystal) want dilbert to stop whining about people attacking him, don't give him anything to work with by trying to lecture him on his attitude, however inane it is. You may be right, but you're not really helping by trying to convince him to stop posting. We all know that doesn't work, right?

Adding to what Vivi has said, I think that there are ways to regulate the problems at FESS to make the boards seem more welcome. There can be more moderator action, as mentioned before, to delete or remove content from posts.

Don't take offense, but I really, really, really don't like this idea. I generally would rather we try and control what we say ourselves than the staff resort to censorship to avoid anyone ticking anyone else off. Self-moderation makes our job easier and makes us seem less like assholes.

Alternatively, an 'ignore' feature could be implemented. This would allow users to neither see nor hear potentially offensive remarks from those with whom they don't agree (on a personal level).

I don't like this too much easier, but it's a little harder for me to logically oppose. It seems like too much trouble to go to to keep the peace for whoever has to make it, we could have problems with people ignoring useful/staff posts and then asking questions that have already been answered, and plus it just doesn't seem morally right to me, IMHO.

Also, since Grand Example of Stupidity is really an undesireable rank and is probably a significant cause of newbies leaving, it would be best to somehow make newbies more informed about what behaviors lead to GEOS. Now, I'm not sure if it's done already, but is the Manual of FESS Prowess given or linked to them in anyway upon their signup? If it isn't, then somehow it needs to be made very clear in any way possible. I suggest through an email sent to them at signup.

I'm not very sure that a forum registration email will get read much more than the rules link at the top. Personally, I skim the emails and read board rules everywhere I go; but that's just my approach.

On an ontopic, but unrelated note..., perhaps all members should take the time to reread this section...?

1.3: Inappropriate Posting Behavior (Flaming, Trolling, Spamming, et cetera)
There are some very specific types of behavior that are not tolerated at the FESS or most other forums.  These are “spamming,” the posting of irrelevant, stupid, or repetitive messages/threads; “trolling,” the posting of content intended to cause angry responses; and “flaming,” the posting of overtly antagonistic, vicious, or cruel content.  None of these things will be tolerated at the FESS, and the latter two are treated with particular seriousness.  A further serious crime is antagonism/flaming/trolling of the GEOS and RSFV groups.  This not only makes you look like an asshole, but will result in you being GEOSed yourself.  Also note that we do not allow pornography at the FESS, and that any image posted must be roughly “PG-13” in its content, and must not be a flame or trolling attempt.

Flaming is looked down upon; even the rules say so. If we do follow these rules, then perhaps FESS will recover what it has lost.

(P.S. From the last few posts, I've noticed that everyone's doing a pretty good job so far with this.  )

You probably have a decent point. I feel like I could understand if someone said we were being a little lenient on offensive posts as long as we felt the "offender" was in the right.

[Superbus]

Contributions don't put you above criticism and don't excuse doing dickish things.  If that were the case, Jet'd probably still be here, considering how he was easily one of the most active staffers in FESS's history, ever.

You tried to connect dots A and B, and ended up at 8, somehow. What does Blacky Wacky call this, a strawman? Something like that?

First off, Jet was no longer an active staff member near the end. He only logged on when he wanted to, and only to slam someone upside the face with his cock. I was routinely bitching him out about his activity for almost a year until Dale fired him.

Secondly, even when he was a "good" staff member, I had a couple reservations about his integrity with the way he dealt with certain friends, such as Neonclover and Rosa Aquafire. Rosa was a wanker, yes, but he was exceptionally dishonest with both of them, and the dots started connecting themselves more and more as time went by.

Even without that, the nature of Jet's offences FAR outweigh Blacky Wacky's. Jet was an abusive staff member even before he destroyed the board, near the end, and he abused his power routinely. Blacky Wacky says mean things. There's a difference in weight.

[Sword Saint]

It's merely meant to illustrate a simple point with an extreme example, Bus: doing constructive or helpful things doesn't nullify or mitigate bad things.  They (should) stand on their own.  The rules don't say "don't be a dick unless you're helpful," they say "don't be a dick."

[Superbus]

Oh, I agree on that front. My point before was that the volume of things Blacky Wacky's done good outweigh his bad. If they didn't, he'd be in GEOS, or possibly gone. Even if I was in the business of banning people for essentially being polarizing - as certain people have advocated - it would be more beneficial to keep him than ban him for that reason.

Using your example, I think it'd be fair to say that if they did "nullify" bad things, he'd still be on the staff. That's probably a more apt comparison.

[Mad Eaichu]

FESS you look like the US congress... you only fucking talk shit and search for someone to blame. Nisher (quanta), you're like my bestest iterweb friend and everything, but this whole idea of let's talk about our problems has been the worst idea you have ever come up with. We need optimism and and vanguard ideas and this place has supplied neither (so I will show some damn optimism for a change because we fucking need it).

Now I will talk about the real future of FESS: FESSProject. Regardless of what drama queens have to tell; FESSProject could be the best way to forward us into progress again. How? If it turns out well(having Ed as lead assures this unless we all fuck up, badly) and we strategically publicize is to the FE fandom out traffic will rocket through the heavens. This is something everyone can do, anytime you talk with someone else in the fandom go on and comment them about it. Let the people know we're doing something other than beating the crap out of each other. This is the best way to help FESS.

I also wish to address something else; "why are we not liek the FE site #1?" Motherfucking simple, we missed the new influx of members that FE10 brought to the fandom, how? I don't remember specifics but the board was going through some considerable technical problems. We even changed to grandbell.net! Did you honestly expect us not to lose traffic after such a blow? Get real.

Now here goes the plan! We're going to make an effort to quit being a bunch of pussies and sulk on the issue and get ready for the next influx of fans. We stop making flamewars in the debate forum, we control the craziness (it's more like utter stupidity) in the craziness domain, we stop blaming the shit in one of our more productive FESS members, and we start working to be a top class FE site again. We are FESS! We are the elite! Some of the most talented individuals in the fandom are here! We need to stop bitching and man up (even the females dammit)! We don't need stupid senseless arguments and drama queens! What we need is to show that we're the best! Divisions and pointing at others only makes us weak! What we need is to start acting like a community, but what if others don't want to? You force them, but not with petty arguments nor pointless insults; you show them by setting an example so respectable that they will follow suit and want to be part of the community.

I've been a FESSer for over three years. I've lived quite a few "FESS moments" and I have gotten to know quite a few of you; hell I even managed to like some of you! Still there are times where the level of stupidity has disappointed me. What did I do at those times? I left. Why? Because I didn't feel like watching a bunch of teenagers "BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" repeatedly in a way that bordered on pathetic, but now I realize the error of my ways. Sure when I left I rickrolled you bastards and felt good about myself but it wasn't until today; when I read one of the most pathetic rants I have seen in my life (I tend to just tl;dr) that I realized that while my method of leaving FESS was way more badass the pathetic spirit behind it was the same (as the one in the emo rant I read). I'm through with my "fuck FESS" phase. FESS won't get better unless I do something for a change, and laughing at your sorry "discussions" (like this one) isn't it. Nobody wants to set example? I will. Nobody wants to stop being a little bitch? I will. I'm with you FESS and this time it will be until the end (I need to start selling this speeches to Obama).

P.S. I'm going to be out for a while (changing house) but don't you worry I'll be back with you guys as fast as those cable bastards get up their lazy asses and wire up the new house. 'til then Ciao! (I have this horrible feeling that by the time I'll come back this will explode).