Character personalities, anyone?

[FE3_Player]

True, but the OP expressed feelings that the whole game would be ruined because of it, so I'm here to express that it really helps to play it for the gameplay.  Class Swap helps.  WiFi might help, depending on what kind of community springs up upon the launch of the game.

If you aren't in it for the gameplay, might be best to look forward to a new FE game.  Since IS did a really good job with the mechanics and balance of FEDS (besides making Zagaro and Wolf too powerful), a new game will probably end up becoming excellent.

  I'd still buy the game simply because I want to support Fire Emblem. D: After all, I believe Radiant Dawn was too hardcore for the to-be fans of Fire Emblem.  Therefore, I guess this is a nice solution to "tone things down" a bit.

FEDS' normal mode can be enjoyed by newbies, but its Hard modes are truly for the hardcore.  Both crowds are getting what they want, provided NoA/E doesn't nerf the Hard modes too much.

[Swordsalmon]

Hardin is going to be the only character using a Silver Lance after you ditch Jeigan, making him a valuable unit on hard modes, and he's a statistically capable unit as well.

Roshe and Villuck...  Roshe can make an okay archer if trained as one, but I can't see a use for Villuck at all.  It's Zagaro, Wolf, and Hardin himself that are excellent units.

Though Abel and Sheeda will likely soon be using Silver weapons due to the necessity of Javelins that'll build their Lance level.

Biraku has a 30% character Speed, which helps greatly, since very few characters double. All of Hardain's men are fairly good at least.

[Neofox]

True, but the OP expressed feelings that the whole game would be ruined because of it, so I'm here to express that it really helps to play it for the gameplay.

People are always going to complain that the games are ruined over the most minor of things. Heck, when FE9 came out people were complaining about how the game was "an insult to FE" because there was no support room.

[FE3_Player]

People are always going to complain that the games are ruined over the most minor of things. Heck, when FE9 came out people were complaining about how the game was "an insult to FE" because there was no support room.

Gosh dang.  Thanks for indicating I shouldn't take some people seriously.

[KiddoCabbusses]

People are always going to complain that the games are ruined over the most minor of things. Heck, when FE9 came out people were complaining about how the game was "an insult to FE" because there was no support room.

Dang, they're probably rolling into a grave over this one.

Anyway, as for character personalities, I get the impression that the supplementary material, like Manga, anime OVAs, and the BS Fire Emblems, whihc were all made during the Monshou no Nazo time, were done to help give the characters personalities. Much of these aren't really reflected on in the DS entry though.

[FE3_Player]

I just now remembered that I need to comment on something.

Though Abel and Sheeda will likely soon be using Silver weapons due to the necessity of Javelins that'll build their Lance level.

Unless you twink out their weapon levels, I doubt it.  I managed to beat chapter 1-6 of FEDS Hard 5 mode and only now got Kain using Steel Lances, because my strategy for Chapters 1-3 relied more on taking advantage of forts + Weapon Triangle instead of hoping Javelins hit things and taking huge penalties upon being attacked.

Hardin will be the next Silver Lance user, even if temporarily, as he will be doing more damage than Jeigan thanks to higher base strength.  His base speed is the same as Jeigan's as well, except that it will actually grow at a sexy 55%.  He will be using the Silver Lance while Sheeda uses the Wing Spear, all during the time you're building weapon levels for Abel or Kain.  Again, though, this is assuming that you didn't somehow power level lance levels in a short time span.

Hardin also has decent growths, Speed rivaling that of Freyr, but his HP will lag a bit (but that just means he can just take the Angelic Robe nobody else will need), and his Str growth is just slightly lower.  His good base stats and usefulness as a unit make up for it, though.
Also, his B in Lances means that he's already going to be using Silver Lances, meaning that you can spend time training him in Sword levels, and by the time you get Gladius, you will be able to use it anyway.

Biraku has a 30% character Speed, which helps greatly, since very few characters double. All of Hardain's men are fairly good at least.

Dude, almost every Social Knight except Machis and Roshe have higher base speed growth than Biraku, with nothing for Biraku to make up for.  Biraku's base stats are garbage too, so he won't be very useful immediately.

Normally I love seeing niche roles of units (Machis will make a cool Archer/Sniper, if you're willing to baby him), but I honestly don't think Biraku even has any niche at all, since many other characters will be able to fill his statistical roles, and more.

[Swordsalmon]

I just now remembered that I need to comment on something.
Unless you twink out their weapon levels, I doubt it.  I managed to beat chapter 1-6 of FEDS Hard 5 mode and only now got Kain using Steel Lances, because my strategy for Chapters 1-3 relied more on taking advantage of forts + Weapon Triangle instead of hoping Javelins hit things and taking huge penalties upon being attacked.

Hardin will be the next Silver Lance user, even if temporarily, as he will be doing more damage than Jeigan thanks to higher base strength.  His base speed is the same as Jeigan's as well, except that it will actually grow at a sexy 55%.  He will be using the Silver Lance while Sheeda uses the Wing Spear, all during the time you're building weapon levels for Abel or Kain.  Again, though, this is assuming that you didn't somehow power level lance levels in a short time span.

Hardin also has decent growths, Speed rivaling that of Freyr, but his HP will lag a bit (but that just means he can just take the Angelic Robe nobody else will need), and his Str growth is just slightly lower.  His good base stats and usefulness as a unit make up for it, though.
Also, his B in Lances means that he's already going to be using Silver Lances, meaning that you can spend time training him in Sword levels, and by the time you get Gladius, you will be able to use it anyway.
Dude, almost every Social Knight except Machis and Roshe have higher base speed growth than Biraku, with nothing for Biraku to make up for.  Biraku's base stats are garbage too, so he won't be very useful immediately.

Normally I love seeing niche roles of units (Machis will make a cool Archer/Sniper, if you're willing to baby him), but I honestly don't think Biraku even has any niche at all, since many other characters will be able to fill his statistical roles, and more.

Using Javelins is a massive benefit early-game, though. Since everyone is at best, two-rounded, so the Javelin-users are reducing the amount of damage taken.

I've gotten Abel to B rank in Lances by Chapter 8 with normal amount of Lance use. Hardain will unlikely be the sole Silver user, especially with Abel's great starting rank.

Biraku has pretty high...Luck. >__< Regardless, Paladin and Dragon Knight are such excellent classes that it doesn't hurt to use many, and Biraku is still doubling quite a bit. The more Paladins, the better.

[Ocelot the Viper]

Ignoring the shop "malarkey" (which I already spoke about in another topic), I think that's why they decided to create Gaiden chapters that require 15 people or less alive on your team... They characters are relatively disposable and you won't be hurting too much to lose them for the sake of the Gaidens. I garuntee nobody would like unlocking the FE7 Gaiden chapters if they had requirements like that, but with such little personality you're not going to feel too bad about the losses they took to unlock.

Exactly.

Otacon, you are my rival now

[Crystalline Eliot]

Shit man... This is a massive downer to me. I hadn't heard of this yet. Add me to the list of people who will be upset by no support conversations. Part of what drew me into the world of Fire Emblem, is that I wanted to know about the character's themselves. I found out about the series because I likes Roy from SSBM (big surprise), and I wanted to know his story. No, I didn't get into fire emblem because I heard it's an awesome strategy game. Fuck, I would've never known about it without SSBM. So I started playing Rekka, when I found out it was coming to the US and that Roy's dad was in it. I was drawn in, because not only was the gameplay kickass, it had a plot! It had a way for you to learn about individual characters as well. These were the support conversations. And on occasion, they were funny. This is what keeps me involved in fire emblem... without it, it's no more than advance wars with different units.

[FE3_Player]

Using Javelins is a massive benefit early-game, though. Since everyone is at best, two-rounded, so the Javelin-users are reducing the amount of damage taken.

Javelins can be used as a main strategy, but it's perfectly possible, and recommended, that you use swords as well on H5 mode for the first three chapters.  It will remove the +15 accuracy bonus Pirates have from A Rank, and parking Jeigan on that fort near the mountain on Ch. 1 and giving him a sword will allow him to weaken up to four Pirates so that you won't even need Javelins to finish them off, making that first wave sooo much easier.

FEDS uses the 2 RN system, so that fort + Weapon Triangle is exactly enough to make enemy accuracy 45, making dodging possible, as well as healing on the next turn.  Of course, you can't stay there for the whole chapter, but the beginning of Ch. 1 is pretty hard, so it is a life saver.

Not to mention Oguma.  He's exactly what you need to fight the Ch. 2 & 3 bosses since Javelins no longer work as a crutch.

I've gotten Abel to B rank in Lances by Chapter 8 with normal amount of Lance use. Hardain will unlikely be the sole Silver user, especially with Abel's great starting rank.

Chapter 8?  Hardin will be using a Silver lance as early as Ch. 6 & 7.  Considering how hard it is to double enemies on H5 (unless your name is Sheeda), that Silver Lance will be quite a help.  Note that I say Hardin is the NEXT Silver Lance user, not the sole user.

without it, it's no more than advance wars with different units.

I guess the RPG elements don't mean much.

[Crystalline Eliot]

I guess the RPG elements don't mean much.

What RPG elements? A storyline doesn't make it an RPG. The only thing like an RPG is equippable weapons, at least in this game.

[FE3_Player]

What RPG elements? A storyline doesn't make it an RPG. The only thing like an RPG is equippable weapons, at least in this game.

Stats and leveling for one.  Stats are actually far more important in FE than most other JRPGs, and Speed ends up actually mattering on H5.

The random number system.  1-100 for every number needing to be rolled.  In comparison, this is the same as a d100 dice (or two d10s), making Fire Emblem closer to paper & pen dice RPG conventions than a lot of other JRPGs with tend to use pretty arbitrary formulas for calculation.



Weapon levels actually matter in FEDS as well, especially on harder modes.  Don't forget that weapon levels don't just net you the ability to use a weapon anymore, they actually net you damage and/or accuracy bonuses as you level your weapon levels up.  That's pretty RPG-like in my book.

As well as the fact that the game gives you exceptionally good units to use, that you need to keep alive.  Yes, you can throw a bunch of subpar units away, but you still want to protect your good units unless you like to do zergling rushes with generic units.  Generic units are closer to AW in concept of being disposable, but for the most part the lack of production factories is a huge difference in how you treat your units, especially with leveling up and stats involved.

Despite the complaints about the lack of support conversations, a story still exists, and there is an RPG setting, it just revolves around Marth's history and the politics and events around him.  Even though there are no support conversations, it is still an RPG fantasy setting, with magic and dragons and such.

[Crystalline Eliot]

No character development in an RPG is unheard of dude...

Edit: Before I get flamed, I mean nowadays. Sure FF1 didn't have character development. But look at the old technology back then!

[Neofox]

No character development in an RPG is unheard of dude...

Even in modern versions, most western RPGs have a greater focus on the story than character development. An RPG without much character development is totally reasonable.

[FE3_Player]

Yeah, classic CRPGs were totally about the gameplay, exploration, and setting.  RPGs didn't even originate as video games, but as table top games, so the goal was more trying to recreate that experience.

A lot of modern Western RPGs are *still* like this too (Fable and Elder Scrolls come to mind, and "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance" being my personal example).

Think of Marth as the equivalent of that dude from Dragon Quest 1, and Anri as Edrick/Roto, except that Marth actually gets speaking lines (which was actually pretty uncommon for NES RPGs) instead of being a silent hero.

[KiddoCabbusses]

Not to mention the fact that at the core, this was planned from the start to be a faithful remake of the Famicom game - where a complex plot was not very possible even for, say, Final Fantasy or Metal Gear. They had to choose between keep the game faithful to it's original incarnation or adding a load of content that could potentially compromise the faithfulness, and they opted to lean more toward the former.

[Crystalline Eliot]

Ah, of course. Class Swap, Online Gameplay, and Online Shops were all part of the original.

[FE3_Player]

FEDS' story already has more dialogue from the original, from what I heard (certainly has more than FE3 Book 1).  The only thing that's actually missing story wise are support conversations.  That's about it.

[Pair of Ducks]

Late response, but talking about the main subject at hand...

Yes, this absolutely kills the game for me.  I have to say that I'll probably maybe buy it anyway for the story, but once I get through it I probably won't ever pick it up for me.

I think, in a sad twisted way, my main motivation for getting through just about every FE game was getting the support conversations/character development.  I mean, hell, even with my support log 100% finished I still play FE7 sometimes.

Sigh, with Radiant Dawn's crappy system, and now this, I hope this isn't a new direction they're planning to take strongly...

[FE3_Player]

The replay value of FEDS comes from the difficulty modes and possibly Class Swap (I don't know if WiFi matches will be popular enough to count).  I said it before, but FEDS is about the gameplay and not the story.

Even if that's not your forte, I hope I can convince people that the game is still excellent for what it's worth, and not deserving of being shunned just because it lacks support conversations.