The exp. issue and how it affects a units worth.

[Sheik]

Thirst post, I hope I can make this one worth it. ^^ Anyway, lately I've been wondering myself where we draw the line between when a units worth it or not when their "underleveld" or "overleveld". Here's the thing.

Take Fe9. It is generally considered that in Path of Radiance Titiana is god, right? Her main argument for that (From what I've heard.) is that she dominates early- and midgame, while still doing fairly decent by the endgame. However, if you want her to perform good in midgame in comparison to your other characters, she'll need a level-advantage, correct? I mean, her bases aren't anything impressive (They're rather poor.), but she does have nice growths. What most people say is that when Oscar reaches lvl.21 and promotes, Titiana is already well underway towards lvl.8 or so, thus having slightly better stats and a good weapon pairing with good ranks to boot.

But why use Titiana excessively? While in some of the early-game chapters she can be a life-saver sometimes (Chapter 4, 5 and 8 are some worth mentioning if I remember correct.), I personally believe that I’d rather use her as little as possible so that my other units can get more exp and grow quicker to dominate enemies by themselves.

To summarize it, I think the balance of your team level is more important than to use a unit who can dominate the enemies, but makes it take longer for your other characters to start dominating by themselves. Example;

When using Titiana to make things a bit easier in early-game the levels of my characters on Chapter 10 (Hard) are;
Titiana lvl.5
Ike lvl. 12
Oscar lvl. 13
Boyd lvl. 10
Soren lvl. 8

When using Titiana as little as possible, just by meat-shielding (She can't weaken things as she kills 90% of the non-bosses up until chapter 10.), the levels of my team on chapter 10 are;
Titiana lvl.2
Ike lvl.16
Oscar lvl.15
Boyd lvl.13
Soren lvl.12

The differences are quite notable in battle. Ike has 2 more defence and 3 more Hp, and is a lot more durable now. Oscar does 2 more damage now (DA), which is only a slight factor, but can be just enough when battling certain enemies. Boyd is in the same boat as Ike, and can use his Steel Axe better now that he's weighted down less and has more speed. 2 more Hp and 1 more Defence also helps, because he is still kind of frail, despite his large HP. Soren has more magic and speed, which is useful for killing enemies.

So now my characters can handle themselves. They're still gaining about twice as much exp. as Titiana, and since I think the overall level of the team is important (Kieran, Zihark and others are going to join, and I want them leveld up fast.), Titiana's not getting any kills even now. My people are going to surpass her soon, and when they reach chapter 16 or so, and most of them have promoted and are on about the same level as her, she really isn't much use to me anymore. The same counts for me with Stefan. I'm not using him till I get my other units till that level, and while he's not bad then, he's just a little worse than my other units.



Last point, I'm not really here to debate you guys. I'd just like some good reasons why I'm wrong (according to a lot of people, like some "master" debaters). If I'm agreeing with you, I'm not going to debate like I think I'm not, I'm honestly going to say that that's true and that you're right and I was wrong. Am I truly as stupid people claim I am for believing this? If so, please tell me and convince me why.

P.S. My apologies if this is full of grammatical errors. I'm not really good with words in my own langauge, so speaking is English is even harder, naturally. I'm always afraid that my point doesn't come over as good as I want it to...

[Lord Fuckboy]

I agree with Titania being overrated by the so-called "master" debaters (thanks for correction Blacky Wacky ;o); early on she sucks up too much EXP, and later on she starts to get a bit behind due to her growths.  Admittedly, she does have ease of use in comparison to everyone in the game, but really don't see her as better than Oscar and Kieran.  Especially since her durability is actually more or less lower than that of those two, and her stats suck for her level.

[Wander]

Titania is only good for weakening armour knights in the English release of Path of Radiance. Later on, she sucks, pretty much. She's only good for backup in the case where one of your other paladins get fucked.

[i am a raging faggot who loves big dicks]

"elite" debaters

"master" debaters, please.

[Sheik]

"master" debaters, please.

Edited in. Apologies if I insulted anyone.

[Wander]

I think he's pulling a prank on you, Sheik. "Master debate" sound a little like "masturbate", don't you think?

Anyway, looking into your debate a little more, I can't tell what point you're trying to get across; are you saying that Titania is useful, not useful or what?

[Wyvern_Sage]

@Angelix: Not useful. When you're using Titania, your other units' value gets less, so in the end you might be better of if you use one of the other Cavaliers/Paladins so that your uber units like Soren get more levels and become badass earlier in the game.

[Sheik]

I think he's pulling a prank on you, Sheik. "Master debate" sound a little like "masturbate", don't you think?

Anyway, looking into your debate a little more, I can't tell what point you're trying to get across; are you saying that Titania is useful, not useful or what?

Indeed it does. I never would have imagined that's what he was implying if you didn't tell me. I need to get more of a sense of humor.

Exactly what Wyvern_Sage said. It's either;
A. Titiana crushes early-game, but she'll be the only one dominating for quite a while and you have to pay attention that your other valuable units aren't dying.
B. Don't use Titiana, except for meatshielding and the sorts, have a bit harder early-game, but let 3 or 4 other units dominating much earlier and end up having a better team at the end.

That said, I don't think Titiana's bad. On the contrary, she's still pretty good, just not the BEST unit in my opinion.

[Lord Kratos]

First of all, I'm one of those people who think Titania is the best unit in the game (I'm not a "master" debaeter, tough) so I'll give my wall of text opinion.

When using Titiana to make things a bit easier in early-game the levels of my characters on Chapter 10 (Hard) are;
Titiana lvl.5
Ike lvl. 12
Oscar lvl. 13
Boyd lvl. 10
Soren lvl. 8

I think you used her way too much >__>

For me, by chapter 18, when all my units are promoted, Titania is level 8, while other units are 20/1-20/3. Earlygame was dominated with ease and my units are ready to rape the rest of the game.

Titania has way too many uses earlygame and it is very easy to give her experience while keeping your other levels high. Clear examples are bosses. Let's take the chapter 4 one. He's a General, Titania can attack and not kill and get decent experience due to both being promoted, then someone else snatches the kill. Or what about chapter 5? Your units are weak and are busy defending the base so the only way to reach the boss and kill him easily (he's an armor, thus high defense) is to use Titania. Your reward? Nice amount of experience for Titania and a Godess icon. Same at chapter 8; you have limited turns and a General boss, so Titania can get that kill.

Furthermore, while some people consider Titania's base strenght a disadvantage I actually don't. She can rescue someone you aren't planning to use and equip a steel axe to destroy her speed, so she double and just weakens. Or maybe you can equip a lance to lower her attack, if you can afford hitting twice (Marcia's slim lance comes handy here). This way Titania is a tank, who gets like 3 experience per attack and prevents other units from getting attacked. h4x. So, if a chapter lasts on average 12 turns and she gets 3 per turn this way (could be more, obviously) she gets 36 exp per chapter. In about 3 chapters she gets a level up. Add to that the ocasional kills she may get (random enemies and a couple bosses) and the fact that she can weaken bosses, and I think that level 8 by chapter 18 while keeping every unit at a good level is completely reasonable.

Then she has a solid level lead for midgame, so she still rapes, and lategame, her only possible problem would be Strenght. But low strenght isn't an issue in this game, because of forged weapons.

[Lord Fuckboy]

Realistically, she won't stop "hogging kills" till enemies actually have AS (read:  chapter 4), because most enemies (except a few myrmidons) have 0 AS starting out, with the myrmidons having around...  not enough for Titania to double. 

And I honestly doubt each chapter's going to be 12 turns.  Typically, they're less than that in the earlygame, and in the midgame they're more or less 7 or 8...  which should change your "one level every three chapters" figure to "one level every four or five chapters"...  making her level lead lower than you're saying.

[Lord Kratos]

If you use her to kill stuff in the earliest chapters then she "hogs" experience, but in exchange, you get more bonus experience because using her enables you to finish chapters faster, so the experience that other ppls lost is recovered via bexp. Doesn't seem like a detriment to me.

The 36 exp per chapter thing was just a speculation. It could be more, it could be less. In some chapters she gets 15 exp, in some a whole level up. Several chapters are shorter, granted, but there are others where, while the chapter takes less than 12 turns, she certainly receives more experience per turn, like defense chapters, chapters with Laguz (the one where Jill joins, the one where Astrid joins, the desert chapter, the ones with a couple tigers, etc.), or chapter 17, which is long like whoa or when she is simply used in a tank-and-weaken role or when she kills somethin, be it accident or intentional.

There's also the fact that enemies grow faster than her so eventually she stars getting 4 and then 5 exp. points per attack.

[Lord Fuckboy]

If you use her to kill stuff in the earliest chapters then she "hogs" experience, but in exchange, you get more bonus experience because using her enables you to finish chapters faster, so the experience that other ppls lost is recovered via bexp. Doesn't seem like a detriment to me.

It's actually very possible to get all the BEXP without her having to kill anyone.  I've done it before. 

Sorry, I feel the need to prick at little details; it's the little things that end up bugging me the most.

[Lord Kratos]

It's actually very possible to get all the BEXP without her having to kill anyone.  I've done it before. 

It's easier to do it with Titania, tough

Sorry, I feel the need to prick at little details; it's the little things that end up bugging me the most.

Little details ftw. Tiny little details sometimes destroy  tl;dr arguments

[Occult Wanderer]

I've been playing PoR as well, and used Titania as a meat-shiled in Chapter 5 so Soren and Oscar got their share.

I don't really like (or use) her...