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The Manual of FESS Prowess - This is mandatory reading for everyone!
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Author Topic: Starting my first playthrough  (Read 4175 times)
ultimateluigi987



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« on: December 30, 2007, 10:54:18 AM »

What units are completely hopeless and what units are gods? (Note: I'm using Lilina if I can for that amazing Magic)
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2007, 11:39:29 AM »

As nice as her magic is, her other stats are pretty lackluster.  Lugh is by far the better mage, and one of the best units in the game.  Anima is broken to hell.  Light sucks pretty bad, so it may not be worth training up Ellen or Saul, and Clarine is better than both of them, as long as she doesn't get magic screwed.  Dark magic?  Use Ray, almost as awesome as his brother Lugh.  Sophia is a pain to train, her bases are terrible, and her growths are along the same line as Lilina's - crazy high Magic and Resistance and not much else.  (Of course, you could get luck like me and have her get 21 speed at 20/1...but that's completely insane, so don't expect it.)

Stay away from axe-users, except Gonzales (at level 5) and maybe Geese.  Most sword users rock - Dieck, Oujay, Rutger and Fir are all good units.  Swordmasters now get a 30% crit bonus instead of 15%, so they rock nicely.  The two starting cavaliers make a good pair with support early on, though I tend to ditch them later as they always get outclassed for me, but other people like them, so go with what works.  Pegasus Knights are also pretty weak compared to 7 or 8, easily RNG screwed and far, far, FAR outclassed by the two Wyvern Knights, who are amazing.  As far as bows go, Wolt is time and time again godawful, avoid him.  Dorothy and Sue seem to be rated pretty equally on FESS, though I find that Sue always outclasses Dorothy when I'm playing.  Shin is very good (though my Sue is usually better than my Shin.  Guess my RNG loves Sue).

You'll want to avoid almost every prepromote except maybe a few - Percival's pretty good, Klein's growths can sometimes salvage his poor bases, Karel is insane but you only get him at the end anyway, Echidna is usable, if you're lucky...a few more I might be forgetting.

Hope this helped!
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2007, 01:15:51 PM »

Hmm, guess I can post my personal (Keyword.) tier list here. Who knows, maybe it can even cause some debating. Not considering HHM though, since this is his first playthrough.

God
Lance
Dieck
Rutger
Alan
Clarine
Chad
Percival

Top
Lugh
Miledy
Astol
Echidna
Saul
Fir
Gonzales
Lalum
Elphin

High
Oujay
Treck
Ellen
Geese
Noah
Shin
Lot
Roy
Hugh
Ray

Mid
Thany
Lilina
Karel
Zeiss
Tate
Bors
Dayan
Zeiss
Sue
Igrene
Zealot
Klein
Cecilia
Bartre

Low
Dorothy
Ward
Douglas
Garret
Wolt
Cath
Yodel
Barth
Niime
Sophia

Bottom
Wendy
Yuno

So I suggest using:
Roy (B Lance, B Alan, C Lalum)
Lance (A Alan, B Roy)
Alan (A lance, B Roy)
Dieck (B Rutger, B Clarine)
Rutger (A Clarine, B Dieck)
Clarine (A Rutger, B Dieck)
Percival (A Lalum)
Lalum (A Percival, C Roy)
Chad (A Lugh, B Ellen)
Lugh (A Chad, B Miledy)
Miledy (A Ellen, B Lugh)
Ellen (A Miledy, B Chad)

Sounds like the best team, right? Anyone?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 01:26:29 PM by Sheik » Logged


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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2007, 02:19:32 PM »

First off, you wrote Zeiss twice in the mid tier. 

Second, how the hell is Zeiss only Mid Tier?  He rocks, plain and simple.  Sue's also at least High Tier, if not better.

As I said before, I don't find Lance and Alan to be that good.  I'd put them in Top at the highest.  Percival is definitely not God Tier; he's Top.  I also would put Saul, Astol and Lalum/Elphin lower, and up Fir to God Tier.  Up Shin and Ray to Top (Ray might even make God if you're lucky) and drop Lot to Mid.  You know what?  I'll just redo yours, changes in bold.

God
Dieck
Rutger
Clarine
Chad
Lugh
Fir

Top
Sue
Lance
Alan
Percival
Shin
Ray
Zeiss
Miledy
Gonzales

High
Astol
Saul
Lalum/Elphin
Echidna
Oujay
Treck
Ellen
Geese
Noah
Roy
Hugh

Mid
Lot
Sophia
Dorothy
Thany
Lilina
Karel
Tate
Bors
Dayan
Igrene
Klein
Bartre

Low
Cecilia
Ward
Douglas
Garret
Wolt
Cath
Yodel
Barth
Niime

Bottom
Zealot
Marcus (You missed him)
Wendy
Yuno

This list would undergo MASSIVE editing for ranked runs or Hard Mode.  This is my personal opinion for a first-time-through.
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2007, 03:07:54 PM »

Quote
So I suggest using:
Roy (B Lance, B Alan, C Lalum)
Lance (A Alan, B Roy)
Alan (A lance, B Roy)
Dieck (B Rutger, B Clarine)
Rutger (A Clarine, B Dieck)
Clarine (A Rutger, B Dieck)
Percival (A Lalum)
Lalum (A Percival, C Roy)
Chad (A Lugh, B Ellen)
Lugh (A Chad, B Miledy)
Miledy (A Ellen, B Lugh)
Ellen (A Miledy, B Chad)

Sounds like the best team, right? Anyone?

Seems like a pretty solid team. The only change I'd consider making is to add Echidna (and have her A support Lalum) and maybe remove Ellen.

Quote
Second, how the hell is Zeiss only Mid Tier?  He rocks, plain and simple.  Sue's also at least High Tier, if not better.

Zeiss: bad joining time with horrible offense when he joins (thus hard to raise) and has bad defense as well if you go to Sacae.

Sue: mediocre offense, mainly. And, if used, you likely go to the harder route, which is a detriment. Care to exlplain why she's high tier?

Quote
As I said before, I don't find Lance and Alan to be that good.  I'd put them in Top at the highest.

Joining at chapter 1, amazing class, amazing stats, amazing supports. What's not to love? Lol at Fir being better than them.

For the most part, I agree with Sheik's list. The major change I'd make would be to rename tiers . I prefer Top, High, Upper Mid, Lower Mid, Low, Bottom.

If it's a list for NM only, then I could see Percival moving down a tier, Zea1337 down to Low, Miledy up to God, Garret up a tier (he's better than Bartre, at least) and Sophia and Wendy down to bottom.

Also, it's missing Marcus and Fa. I'd put both of them in low tier (if we take HM into account Marcus would be higher).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 03:09:33 PM by Lord Kratos » Logged


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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2007, 03:18:50 PM »

Zeiss's offense isn't too much of a problem; give him a few levels and he should be up there with everyone else.  Late joining is annoying, yes, and Sacae is dangerous for him, but that shouldn't cut him down to what you call lower-mid tier.  Trained, he's very good.  Hard training shouldn't lower him.

Sue's offense is pretty darn good.  A bit low on strength but enough speed to double anything; give her heavier weapons if you're worried.  I've never had a problem with Sue, and Sacae wasn't that hard for me.  *shrug*

Quote
Joining at chapter 1, amazing class, amazing stats, amazing supports. What's not to love? Lol at Fir being better than them.
Cavaliers aren't all that great.  Their stats certainly aren't all that great; they consistently fall behind every time I play.  Their supports are quite nice, and are a major saving grace if you want to use them; they're great for early to mid game but fall behind towards the mid-end portion.  Again, that's just my opinion; you can use them and you'll do fine.  I just prefer other people.
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2007, 03:24:55 PM »

First off, you wrote Zeiss twice in the mid tier. 

Second, how the hell is Zeiss only Mid Tier?  He rocks, plain and simple.  Sue's also at least High Tier, if not better.

As I said before, I don't find Lance and Alan to be that good.  I'd put them in Top at the highest.  Percival is definitely not God Tier; he's Top.  I also would put Saul, Astol and Lalum/Elphin lower, and up Fir to God Tier.  Up Shin and Ray to Top (Ray might even make God if you're lucky) and drop Lot to Mid.  You know what?  I'll just redo yours, changes in bold.

Sorry about that. I'd give him the upper one of the two.

Zeiss comes at lvl.7 unpromoted in chapter 16. That's pretty damned underleveld, and without the HM bonusses, his base stats aren't that great. I think of him as Nino, altough to a much lesse extent. Anyway, I can somewhat see him in the bottom of High tier, but not much higher.

Also, Sue for high tier? Lvl.1 at chapter 6, which is not REALLY bad, but definiatley bad. She's locked bows before promotion, which is also a pretty large factor. Lackluster strength, and only good support option being Shin gives pretty bad bonusses (IcexWind. Full hit and Critical evd FTL.) doesn't give her any right in Top tier. Low tier, please.

Lance and Alan rock, seriously. Mounted, great stats, best availability, great and fast support duo, what's not to like?

Percival doesn't need an promotion item, so he doesn't have to wait for it. Comes early with a great level (lvl.5 at chapter 13), good stats even without HM bonusses, and great weapon levels.

Edit: Beaten by Lord Kratos. I'm so slow .
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 03:26:32 PM by Sheik » Logged


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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2007, 04:23:38 PM »

Here is my personal tier list for a first run through. Basically, you're familiarizing yourself with the story, the units, the enemies, and you're probably not abusing arenas or anything. I took theshim's list and modified it, because I agreed with a lot of it anyway.

God ~ You can't go wrong with them... except in cases of severe RNG-rape.
Rutger (Swordmasters are great in this game. Maybe you'll only use one, maybe both. Both have weakish Def and Res, decent Str, but naturally fantastic avoid and enough HP to take hits. Their greatest weakness is Berserk Staffs.)
Clarine (Troubadour/Valkyrie. High Spd, Luck in particular. Magic might suffer, but who knows? My first run, I thought she was a God with maxed Magic. Her HP is low, but well, magic units... Her Def is also magic-unit-weak [actually, forget magic-unit-weak. Most units don't get above 15 Def in this game], but her Res and Skl are fine. Has great support options in Rutger, Dieck, and Lance... Her fastest supports are with Rutger and her brother Klein, who is a decent prepromote.)
Fil (Other great Swordmaster <3 See comments under Rutger)
Dieck (Lots of HP and Skl. Str is significantly higher than that of Rutger and Fil. Enough Spd to handle and double most enemies. Some luck, slightly more def than Rutger. Con prevents speed loss that the other Mercenary, Oujay, will get from heavier weapons, though Oujay is still good).

Top
Sue (Sue and Shin are your primary nomads. They're better than the archers you get... except in the lone desert chapter where you'd like foot archers to shoot down the dragon knights. But that's just one map. Magic units can fry the dragons too. Shin has plenty of the first four stats, though actually his strength averages about 23, and maxes at 24. Oh well. Sue only averages 45 HP, and 18.3 Str, but also has plenty of Skl and Spd, moreso than Shin, and significantly more Luck for more avoid and more critical avoid. They have fast supports, but Sue would benefit more from a Fire support from Roy. Rath >>>>> Sue. Rath >>>>> Shin. Sue + Shin > Rath. Too bad in this game, nomads can't triangle... whether you take Sacae path or Ilia path, it makes no difference really...)
Shin (see above)
Lance (Support him with Alen, and then maybe a C from Roy each? Solidly good. Not as much power as Alen early on, but plenty of HP, Skl, Spd. Not godly, but handles things fine. Alen and Lance wind up similar. Great HP, good Str, good Skl, Decent Spd, some Def, low Res, Some Luck)
Alen (see above)
Percival (Greatest prepromote in this game. Even better with hard mode bonuses. Poor support options though)
Zeiss (Zeiss and Miledy are siblings from Bern, and superior Dragon Knights. Zeiss has lots of HP, Str, Skl. Decent Spd, and above average Defense for this game. His Luck is a little lower than we'd like, and his Resistance is utter crap, but... Anyhow. Miledy is pretty much the same except 1 less Strength for about 2 points more of Speed. Slightly lower Def for slightly less crappy Res.)
Miledy (see above)
Gonzales (For an axe-user, use either Gonzales if you get him at level 5, or Geese otherwise. Gonzales is scary-looking, but he's got lots of HP, Str, and Spd. As a Berserker later, his critical, +30 for Berserkers and Swordmasters in this game instead of the measley +15 in the NA games, more than makes up for his poor Skl. His Def averages 17.5, but he'll have plenty of HP. If your Gonzales is level 12, DO NOT USE THAT ONE.)
Chad (Chad, Lugh, and Rei are childhood friends. Support them together. They have similar movement, the same once Lugh and Rei are promoted. The Thieves are all decent in this game, but Chad is clearly on top. Too bad they don't promote here. Lugh is the mage, and a good one. Not stellar like Nino, but more well-rounded than Lyrina. Enough Mag and Spd and Luck, and superior Skl. Supports reinforce his 39 hp and weak defense. Rei is the Shaman with more HP and Power than his brother, plenty of Skl, decent Spd, weak Luck and Def, and better Res. Good, but like his friends, needs supports.)
Lugh (see above)
Rei (see above)

High
Lyrina (I love  It's just that she's usually so unbalanced. Averages 36.1 hp, maxes Mag at 30, decent Spd at 20.2, lots of Res 22 and Luck 23. She's built like a Shaman, except her low 15.6 Skl doesn't blow since Anima is so accurate. She won't critical much on her own, but she will. Her support with Fire affinity Roy is fast and great. Give only Fire tomes, and she'll still burn a hole through enemy lines without any Speed loss, and it's cheap. Her fast supports are also good for Roy, since Roy seems too balanced. As she only needs Fire tomes, she'll maintain an average of 63 avoid. Add supports, and maybe even a terrain bonus. Highly useful to take out Dragon Knights in the desert chapter)
Asthol (the thief from Ostia. Supports with Igrene if you're interested in a completely irrelevant story. He's useable, just pales next to Chad)
Sol (the philandering priest! Once, I forgot he was equipped with a Light magic tome, and when Douglass attacked him, he criticaled Douglass and I had to restart. Anyway. Light sucks next to Anima in this game, but Sol isn't by any means a bad character. Slightly higher HP than most magic units, he has weaker magic power than even Lugh, but lots of Skl and Spd and Res. Weak Def and Luck means don't put this guy against Swordmasters)
Oujay (really good Mercenary. Lower Con than Dieck, so he will be weighed down, but he does have more Spd)
Geese (your axe-user if you got level 12 Gonzales. He's good. Lots of HP and Str, good Luck, average Def, poor Res, and more balanced decent Skl and Spd)
Noah (supports Fil. Decent.)
Roy (all-around decent but not outstanding... until he gets the 20 use Sword of Seals right near the end of the game )
Hugh (usually forgotten, Canas' son is pretty good, if you get him for full price. Very average Def and Luck, and low Res for a magic user, but higher HP than other magic users, more power than Lugh, plenty of skill what with Lyrina's skill being quite enough, and a decently good 23 speed)
Tate (I prefer Thany over Tate, but overall, the three Pegasi suck next to the FE7 girls. Tate has more Str and is more durable, but her Spd isn't as high, and with weak Luck, that means her avoid isnt' that high. She is harder to train up, compared to Thany. Yes, Tate is more durable, but that doesn't mean she IS durable. In the end though, both will be solid. I've even given Thany Durandal, though more for fun; I usually just stick them with Killer Swords and let them rip.)
Thany (see above)
Cass (like Asthol, severely pales next to Chad, and comes later than both. As a thief, she is needed for the gaiden right after she comes, which means you'd better abuse-train her as soon as you get her. Which is a pain. If she came in Lyrina's chapter, like Asthol, that'd be great. Her Str, Def, and Res all suck. It also sucks that at level 5 she has 11 speed and a killer 85% growth especially since everything except luck maxes at 20. her 80% growth in HP also is made useless as she starts off level 5 with 16 HP, resulting in an average of 28. Even if you're lucky and she goes up in HP every single time, that's only 31 HP if you don't use steroids. On the other hand, I rely heavily on thieves to prevent enemies from using vulneraries every time they don't die, and for 12x to nab treasure and steal from other thieves.)

Mid
Lot (slightly better than his best friend Ward, but still weak)
Sofia (she's like Lyrina, except Dark magic is heavy and inaccurate, comes in a difficult map, and that late into the game, is ridiculously hard to train. She does have higher HP than her fellow female magic users at 39.8; her growth isnt' bad at 60%, just starts really low. She has lots of Magic and Res, probably will max both. Low Def and surprisingly Luck, and her Spd only averages 18.4... She's more a story character)
Lalam/Elfin (they have different growths as they are different characters. They can refresh characters, but with lower speed max, they become weak links quickly. Elfin in particular has some interesting supports...)
Dorothy (both your archers are decent, with decent first 4 stats, but the nomads are much better, and you might as well just use Klein and Igrene)
Wolt (see above)
Treck (decent in the end.
Elen (I prefer Sol. She has magic-unit HP and Def, FANTASTIC Res and Luck... If you only stick her on basic Light tomes, she won't be weighed down. With a magic of 22.3 and skl of 20, she'll be doing okay damage. Her 17.4 Speed really blows for me though. That's just 64 avoid, similar to Lyrina's, except lower attack speed. She won't double ANYTHING, and she's not doing godly damage either)
Karel (decent all-around, and has crazy growths... for one level. He also comes in like the second to last map ever. >__<)
Bors (the best of the armors, and not that good)
Igrene (both your Snipers are decent prepromotes)
Klein (see above)

Low
Dayan (Rath's father, and Sue's grandfather. Past his prime, apparently, the feared Silver Wolf. Can't triangle, but he's a bit better than Juno)
Bartre (Past his prime as well. The only one who improved in growths over time was Karel, apparently, and I don't believe he improved overall, either)
Cecilia (Weak Valkyrie Mage General. Roy and Lyrina have surpassed their tutor)
Ward (Fighter. Blah)
Douglas (blah blah blah Etrurian general. Etruria doesn't know how to hire people when only one general, Percival, is any good)
Garret (a scary-looking berserker that Lyrina can recruit. Unlike Gonzales, this guy sucks, and I'd prefer to just feed him as experience to Clarine)
Yodel (Like Niime <_< If you really want Light magic and hate Sol and Elen, then play the game 9 times over to use Guinivere)
Wendy (I don't mind her if she were in FE8, but here? Worse than Sofia to train)
Barth (Worst of the triangle armors)
Niime (Canas' grandmother. More amazing than my grandmother is probably all I can say. For the map she's in, protect her and let her heal people. Get her supports if you're OCD, and then ditch her.)

Bottom
Zealot (a paladin whose supposed to be intelligent, but sucks. Married to Juno.)
Juno (unlike Farina of FE7, the late-coming sister sucks. A lot. She's already promoted too, so she'll be slow to level, with low growth. Her one redeeming point is that she can Triangle with her sisters, unlike Dayan, so if you like a fancier animation...)
Marcus (if you thought FE7 Marcus was bad...)


OVERALL: Fire affinities, the preferred affinity for offense since it only really lacks in defense and critical evade, in the whole army are Roy, Alen, Ward, Lugh, Dorothy, Wendy, Fil, and Geese. We can make do with Roy and Fil, and 2 out of Alen, Fil, and Geese. Wind is okay for everything except evade and defense.
Roy (Lyrina A, Sue B) ~ Added power, hit, crit... basically will turn your jack-of-all-trades into something good.
Lyrina (Roy A, Gonzales B) ~ She doesn't need more power, but the added hit and crit are good, as are fast supports and some evade. As she herself is Light, she adds even more firepower, hit and crit. Low skill be gone.
Gonzales (Lyrina B) ~ He does need the hit, though it might be a moot point. The added crit = one big powerhouse hit.
Rutger (Clarine A, Dieck C, Fil C) Rutger and Clarine need Attack, something neither of their affinities gives them. However, they add crit, which makes Rutger deadlier than ever. Both dodge king and dodge queen get extra avoid. The support for Rutger with Fil gives both a bit more of everything --- sizzling hot!
Clarine (Rutger A, Dieck C) Here, the double Thunder with Dieck won't help Clarine, but it will supplement Dieck's only decent speed and low luck. Clarine's low defense will never be a problem at that.
Fil (Shin A, Rutger C) Fil's fire will make sure both she and Rutger get a little supplement for lower Str, and Crit everything else away. Shin doesn't really need more power, but she's his best support choice, as Sue definitely does not need Ice.
Dieck (Rutger C, Clarine C)
Chad (Lugh/Rei A, Miledy C)
Lugh/Rei (Chad A, Miledy B [if Lugh]) ~ Why would Lugh be Fire and Rei be Ice? They have the same birthmonth unless Nino went into labor on the last day of the month in the evening. And they definitely have the same blood type... Anyway. Chad and Miledy are versatile, so both offensive and defensive supports will do them good.
Sue (Roy B, Shin B) ~ She needs some power and crit from Roy, a fast supplemental support from Shin.
Shin (Sue B, Fil A) ~ more crit power is always good. It's more reliable.
Miledy (Zeiss A, Lugh B)
Zeiss (Miledy A)
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2007, 04:32:25 PM »

I'll just quote myself from that other topic:

Quote
Eh let's go for some general advice:

You've been told not to use a lot of prepromoted units in FE 7?  Guess what, they're worse here.  Percival is an exception, however.  Some people praise Klein but his bases are bad for a prepromoted unit so I'd rather use Igrene over him.  Dayan isn't bad if supported with both other Nomads and sent into the fray in chapter 21.  Karel's useful, too, for the 2 chapters he's in.

If you like to spend a lot of time to create supports, know that you have a limit of maximum points.  Therefore, you probably can't have a lot of As by chapter 4.

Get the Gaiden chapters and don't use the weapons you get there too much/at all until after chapter 22.

Your Orion bolts are better used by Nomads ( and even then, probably only Shin ).  Your Elysian whips should be used by your Dragonknights, and finally your Knight Crests by your Socialknights.  Archers, Pegasus Knights ( who lost their huge resistance ) and Armorknights aren't that good in this game.

For Hero crests, pretty much everyone is good except Wade.  Since you're a novice, I'd rather have a Swordmaster, a Hero and a Berserker ( they promote with Hero crests in FE 6 ), preferably Rutger, Dieck and either of them ( Gonzales if you get him at level 5, otherwise Geese ). Warriors are nothing special here with Berserkers clearly having the better hand in axefighting, Nomad Troopers with bows and Paladins/Dragonknights ( if you gave one the Delphi Shield, of course ) in durability. You get only two before that, so you can sell a promotion item you think you won't use, buy another one with both Silver and Gold cards in chapter 16x's secret shop.  Swordmasters and Berserkers get a very useful 30% boost in critical instead of 15%, and all units available in those classes have an affinity that raises critical hits.

For Guiding rings, a lot of units are great here, so it can be tough to decide.  Generally, Lugh and Clarine should be promoted, while other good candidates include Rei, Hugh, Saul and maybe even Lilina.  Rei and Saul are the easiest to use in their respective magic disciplines.  Anima users with B and above are excellent against Dragonknights and masters, which you will fight somewhat often.  As with the Hero crests, you might want to sell some of the other promotion items if you want a lot of promoted magicians.

For Thieves, Chad has the best potential, but Asthol is there if you don't want to train Chad/want to make a chapter easier.

Train Roy as early as possible.  If you don't go for ranks and use save states if the worse comes, there's an arena in chapter 7.

Some interesting supports include:

Roy with Allen and Lance ( Allen and Lance with an A )
Rutger with Clarine and Dieck ( Rutger and Clarine getting an A )
Lugh with Hugh and Rei ( Lugh with Rei getting an A.  Hugh can be replaced by Chad )
All 3 Nomads together, Shin and Sue getting an A
Both Dragonmasters together.
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 08:03:15 PM »

Meh, I'd still argue that Dorothy is better than Sue. She averages better in the stat that matters: Strength. She doesn't have Sue's higher movement, but on one's first playthrough, you aren't exactly racing to get each chapter done, anyways...
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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 08:22:58 PM »

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Zeiss's offense isn't too much of a problem; give him a few levels and he should be up there with everyone else.  Late joining is annoying, yes, and Sacae is dangerous for him, but that shouldn't cut him down to what you call lower-mid tier.  Trained, he's very good.  Hard training shouldn't lower him.

8 base speed with 35% growth is awul. In chapter 15, before Zeiss even joined, most Wyvern riders have 11 speed. Zeiss woud have to be 20/3 to double. And wyverns are some of the slowest enemies around. Now let's get back to reality, where Zeiss joins later and enemies have gained 1 or 2 more speed, and maybe you are fighting nomads.

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Sue's offense is pretty darn good.  A bit low on strength but enough speed to double anything; give her heavier weapons if you're worried.  I've never had a problem with Sue, and Sacae wasn't that hard for me.  *shrug*

Bows also make her useless during enemy phase, because melee units don't get countered when they attack her and enemies with ranged weapons also prefer to attack someone who can't counter. And if Sue switches to swords, she is still stuck with a low Mt weapon (low sword level ftl). And Sacae is still harder than Illia. Having an easier time>having a hard time.

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Cavaliers aren't all that great.  Their stats certainly aren't all that great; they consistently fall behind every time I play.

High move, move again, 2 weapons before promotion and full weapon triangle after. Cavalier->Paladin is the best class in the game, dude.

Also, average stats, kthx.



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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 08:39:25 PM »

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Cavalier->Paladin is the best class in the game, dude.
Depends on how you play, I guess.  I'm not their greatest fan.  But fine, conceded that they are a great duo.  I just didn't have much use for them.  *shrug*

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Bows also make her useless during enemy phase, because melee units don't get countered when they attack her and enemies with ranged weapons also prefer to attack someone who can't counter.
Bows do not automatically make a unit suck.  Sue is a good unit; IMO better than Dorothy (who's still locked to bows even if you promote her) and certainly worth using, unless you really don't want to take the Sacae route.  It's harder, yes, but not impossible.  If you want to make your life easier, then ditch Sue or get the Pegasus Knights some XP.  I just think you're losing out on one of the better units.  Again, this is a personal opinion based on my own playing style; I understand why you'd disagree.

Zeiss can easily get screwed.  True.  First playthrough?  Just give him a speedwing.  This isn't a ranked run or anything, or I'd never recommend him.
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 09:37:38 PM »

(who's still locked to bows even if you promote her)
It's not any worse than it is for Sue. Sue doesn't automatically swap to swords if attacked at close-range, so if she uses bows (which is all she'll really want to be using due to starting with an E in swords and as a result can't just use a stronger version of the weapon to compensate), she's just as in need of protection as Dorothy..
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Zeiss can easily get screwed.
Anyone can get screwed and anyone can get blessed. This is why we use statistical averages to decide how good units are in terms of raw stats.
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2007, 03:41:35 AM »

It's not any worse than it is for Sue. Sue doesn't automatically swap to swords if attacked at close-range, so if she uses bows (which is all she'll really want to be using due to starting with an E in swords and as a result can't just use a stronger version of the weapon to compensate), she's just as in need of protection as Dorothy.

Very true. With the kind of strength she has, attacking with an Iron Sword will result in very, very low damage. Not to mention that a lot of enemies from mid to endgame carry lances and while she does have great avoid, her defence and Hp are pathetic and the chance that she'll be hit will still be around 35-50% (if not more) thanks to WTD. 18 base hp with 55% growth? 5 base defence, with a 10% growth? She'll get 2hko'd.
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2007, 04:30:42 AM »

Sue and Dorothy are both ass, the only bow user remotely worth using is Shin. But since he takes you to Sacae which is hard (though fun), I recommend not touching the Nomads at all. If you really want to use the S-rank bow you'll either have to use a Nomad, or I guess Igrene can be used for her prepromoteness.

My personal favourite team is Roy, Alan, Lance, Clarine, Rutger, Dieck, Miledy, Percival, Lugh + fillers. Possible fillers are about any Hero Crester (Fir and Gonzo are the best), Echidna and Ray.

Lol at Treck the Top Tier.
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2007, 04:41:06 AM »

Nobody put Treck in top tier I believe. Shin's also pretty overrated. Lvl.5 at chapter 9, lame bases without HM bonusses, only average supports. (Ice is pretty bad, Dayan and Sue are bad options, Fir isn't so fast and mov difference, and Zeiss is as slow as possible.) Locked to bows, bad defence, Sacean route. Need I go on?
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2007, 10:06:30 AM »

Wow, bow-users are gettin' a lot of hate here.  I personally like having at least one bow-user, though admittedly no one here is FE7 Rebecca, but Sue or at least Shin tend to be decent enough, and being locked to bows isn't that crippling (again, for a first-time, normal playthrough).  The only really bad thing about the nomads is the Sacae route, and yeah, I'll agree that's a pain, but it's doable.
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2007, 10:54:59 AM »

Shin's the only good bow-user in this game and the only I'd ever use consistently. Everyone other bow-user is suck and only worth using for novelty's sake.
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2007, 12:40:12 PM »

I suppose the only reason I'm fine with using both Sue and Shin is because I'm probably the only one who can level Thany to promotion by ch 12, and do my best to raise Tate and Sue around the same time, and Shin by ch. 20 ish, so that even using all 4, I can go Ilia path most of the time.
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2007, 01:48:39 PM »

Shin's the only good bow-user in this game and the only I'd ever use consistently. Everyone other bow-user is suck and only worth using for novelty's sake.
How is Dorothy's 22 strength and 25 speed that bad? Those are only a point or two off of Shin's final average strength and speed...
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